This post is about other women's opinions. My two cents is posted two below this one, under the recent photos.
1. What wishes have you not had followed in the hospital? What have you had to ~fight~ for? What have you been belittled about?
2. Do you think elective C/S and inductions should be allowed, for no medical reason?
3. Are you like me, you don't really care as long as ALL women's choices are respected?
4. If you've never had a baby in a hospital, maybe you can share WHY you avoided it.
And here is a synopsis of the responses I got:
T.W. says, "But one nurse literally stabbed me with a needle to do a heplock even though I didn't want one, and the doctor said I didn't need it. But this nurse was crazy and kept stabbing at me. I disagree with elective c-sections and inductions, but I can't make people's choices for them and if they want to do it then that is their choice. It's just something I don't agree with."
M.O. says, "I haven't had any experiences with actual birth yet, but so far I've been pretty happy with the way both my doctor and hospital have reacted about my wishes for a natural birth. The only thing I haven't liked so far is I've gotten an occasional vibe that I think I'm a know-it-all for wanting a natural birth. For the most part my doctor has had very open dialogue about it, but occasionally she'll say something wanting me to explain myself or my wishes instead of being calm about it. Which makes me feel very small. It's definitely not appreciated when people do their own research. I can see both sides of the c-section argument. While I personally don't feel this way, some people have a tremendous fear of giving birth vaginally. The unknown is just too much for some people and they would rather be able to plan when the baby is coming and sort of "know" what the recovery entails (aka that of major surgery). So while I don't think elective c-sections should be encouraged, I really can't say that I don't think they shouldn't have them at all because some people are different. Just like how I'd do anything in my power to have a natural birth, some people really feel the same way about cesarians. I do think that there should be a bigger movement to expose all women, not just the ones who seek the information, to the possible joys of a natural birth and the concept that birth is a natural, instinctual process, and that both the woman's body and the baby know what to do. There are definitely situations where this does not hold true, but if people thought more positively about birth, I think it would bring the Csection rate down tremendously. As for insulting people about getting elective c-sections, I have mixed feelings about that, too. Birth is such a personal and life changing moment, that no one wants to feel that they were shortchanged with theirs. So its a pretty sensitive subject to say someone's way of birth was wrong when they have a child that they know and love as a result of it. On the other hand, I think everyone has the right to say how they feel and that both by you blogging about your feelings and people responding that they are insulted is a natural and acceptable communication. If I was going to be blogging I would want people to know about how I actually felt deep down, with no fluff, rather than sugar coat things and have it be superficial."
P.Q. says, "I avoided the hospital because I didn't want to have to fight anyone to get the birth I wanted. I am not sure how the hospital would have been, and I know my DH would have been fantastic at keeping everyone in line, but I really loved that he also got to enjoy our daughter's birth instead of having to keep one eye on all the medical staff. To me, hospitals are for the sick. Pregnancy isn't a disease. "
D.M. says," Since I have a good amount of experience attending planned natural births (as a doula) at the hospital I would go to if I couldn't have a homebirth I'll give you my *if only* answers. I would have to fight to have intermittent monitoring, even though ACOG sets that as the standard. I've never seen it allowed. I would have to know my rights to refuse routine GBS+ antibiotics if I wanted not to have them, likely with scare tactic lectures. I'd also have to go out of my way to wear my own clothing and play CDs. Delayed cord clamping would likely not be respected, and frequent vaginal exams would be done roughly and on the hour unless I REALLY stood up against that. Other interventions would be pushed- like pitocin or a cesarean, and pushing would be limited to on my back once the perineum was bulging. I'd fight to push in a gravity positive position and probably have to make threats to get to eat in labor and have DH catch. If me and my support people weren't on the ball I'd likely get a episiotomy without consent. Pain meds would be offered frequently unless I got really lucky with one of only a few NCB friendly nurses, and I'd get scare tactic speeches when refusing all the routine newborn procedures. Photos of pushing and birth would be banned, but I'd fight that too. I think medical procedures should not be done electively. Convenience inductions are a huge issue, and make birth less safe for mom and baby. Knowing the facts I cannot understand why someone would choose to induce or have a cesarean without need. "
M.B. says, "I am against elective sections... I personally am being my own advocate for a natural childbirth... My OB is already talking of induction and possible section because I have gestational diabetes... I personally know that my body can do what it is meant to do... I have chosen to go with a midwife after a confrontational OB appointment. I want a natural childbirth for many reasons... And I am going to stay strong with having a NCB... Yes I have already had my mom laugh in my face tell me I will fail and end up getting meds but that laugh has made my convictions stronger.... I stand by any woman who has, wants, or attempts a NCB but will not down them if they end up having interventions done for whatever reason... I do get irritated with women who already choose interventions well in advance, despite knowing the facts and research well before birth."
M.J. says, "I'm like you, as long as a woman's wishes are respected I don't care! in the end as long as mom and baby are happy and healthy that's all that matters. i had a NCB in a hospital and didn't have to 'fight' for anything. my MW did mention maybe breaking my water if i wanted to and I said no and she said no problem. my birth was quick, but they left us alone. my MW was right outside in the hallway and when we asked for a birth ball they were back with it in less than a minute. my nurses were wonderful and my MW was amazing. I think they didn't bother me because they knew I was there with a MW, and the MWs obviously follow different rules than the OB's. They didn't even attempt to put in an IV or anything! I did have to have monitoring but I was able to stand and it didn't bother me. I actually liked having my support team tell me when the contraction was ending. It was comforting for me."
From M.G., who's little stinker baby turned transverse during labor at a birth center, "A c section should NEVER EVER EVER be elective. It is major surgery and shame on any doctor who preforms one which is not medically necessary. The risks are too high. If someone is afraid of a vaginal birth, then get over it, or don't get pregnant. A woman I know got an elective section because she was afraid to deliver vaginally. It made me sick. I know a few people who had elective sections and I never agreed with one situation. I was at the birth center for about 24 hours before my hospital transfer. After the baby was born, the midwife made sure I got to hold her and breastfeed her before she was cleaned up. I had to fight to keep her in my room 24/7. They wanted me to stay for four days, we were there about 40 hours total. I had to specifically make sure I was not given any medicine that would alter my mental state. All I took was IV motrin and 1/2 dose percocet. It was VERY important to me to be present for the arrival of my baby, to breastfeed as soon as possible, and to take care of her best I could given the situation. Multiple times I had to refuse medicine they wanted to give me. As long as i got my motrin on time, I was ok with the pain from the surgery. I wanted to avoid a hospital birth for many reasons. The advantages of birthing at the birth center are HUGE-- -comfortable, relaxed environment -intermittent monitoring with doppler -able to walk, bathe, go outside, etc, during labor -able to eat during labor -labor and delivery in any position suitable for you and the baby -care and respect of the midwives and nurses -the bonding post birth -the short stay at the birth center post birth. -the home visit post birth by the midwife or nurse" From
M.S. "My 1st 2 children were induced on my due date - no medical reason - and I didn't know any better. My 3rd child I my water started leaking and I went into labor on my own, on my due date. Even though I was contracting 1 min apart, I was in denial that I was in labor. Afterall, I had only ever experienced pitocin contrax. So I sat around home for hours before finally going to the hospital. When I arrived my contractions were almost back to back and I was 6 cm dilated. Sounds pretty far to me!! Well my OB told me he was going to start pit to "speed things up". I told him there was no way, I was progressing just fine on my own. (This was at 6pm). Then he kept urging me to get the epidural. He said "There is No way you can do this without it". I told him if I went through 2 pitocin deliveries, the first being 29 hours long, with NO epidural or pain meds, I could do it this time too. But he continued to tell me there was no way I could do it. 3 hours 7 minutes later my son was born with no pitocin and no epidural after stalling at 7cm for 2 hours due to him being posterior. I too am very against elective inductions/c-sections especially for reasons of 'convenience'. I've seen women choose to be induced at 37 weeks, or even earlier, just so certain family members could be there. Then came all the "why me's" when their little ones were in the NICU for days or even weeks. The only reason I find "legit" for a schedule c-sect before the due date is if it is dangerous for the mother - or baby - for that mother to go into labor. But inductions because a mom is just 'tired of being pg' or to be sure to get a certain Dr. or have certain family members there - I just find that wrong and dangerous. All 6 of my children were born at the hospital, first 3 by OB's, my last 3 (and this one will be) by a midwife. My last 3 were the best experiences I've ever had. No drug pushers, no being tied down by monitors, etc."
W. D. says, "I do not agree with elective cesareans. Even though I had one. Of course, it was a repeat, but I didn't know any better and I was scared into it. Like many others have pointed out, there are so many reasons why they are wrong. I don't think a woman should ever have an elective cesarean for a first birth, unless there is a medical reason...but then, that wouldn't be elective, would it? However, I feel it is up to a woman to decide what she wants. I also think, that if women were told the *true* risk factors of each birthing option...vaginal, C/S, ERCS, VBAC...and aren't being given scare tactics about any of the options, just the facts...then I'd feel better about the choice they make. I didn't really have to fight, per say, for anything in the hospital. I had to search really hard to find a hospital and OB that didn't have a ban on VBA2C's, though. I ended up having to drive over 2 hours. That was not fun when I went past my due date and had to get NST's 2 times a week! In the hospital I had to have a hep-lock and CFM. I didn't want those, but I was willing to compromise to be able to attempt my VBA2C. My midwife was truly a midwife. She came to the hospital and stayed until my baby was born. She was a great advocate for me. She is the one that told the nurses, "She is not in ANY pain, and she refuses to answer that question. Please don't ask it again."
A.P. just wanted to ditto how fabulous a birth center was! She had a great experience at one with her daughter.
L.L says, " Just a first timer so no first hand experience yet, but I am very passionate that Elective C/S and Inductions should NOT be allowed. Well, actually scratch that, they should be allowed if the mommy wants to pay for it out of pocket. They should NOT be covered by insurance. It's unnecessary intervention that is driving up our health care costs and it makes me sick to my stomach. Not to mention, the risks are NOT fully discussed with the mommies (and I mean long term fertility risks - not just scarring, etc) - Elective procedures should be treated as such and doctors should be paid incentives if they can keep their elective procedures to a minimum. No matter how you look at it, it is very risky in so many ways."
E.L. says, "For my last 2 births (at the same hospital) I was able to get them to allow me to vary from hospital policy without a fight on the following things: I wore my own clothes I had intermittent monitoring I had infrequent cervical exams (probably more due to water being broken than to my request) Here are the things I had to fight on and I was not successful in winning these battles (hence the part of the reason for the doula this time to help back us up): - Hep-lock - they always want to give this to me immediately even though they don't have any reason to give me meds. They want it there "just in case" - Rejection of medication for pain - I have not had a nurse that supported this at the hospital. They seem to think there is no point to skipping the epidural. - I can't refuse salve in baby's eye's or vitamin K shot due to my state's laws. - Our hospital gives mom 1 hour to bond with baby after birth and then insists on a stay in the nursery for a couple hours for bath and monitoring. I have never been successful in delaying or eliminating the bath or keeping baby for more than an hour before allowing him to go to the nursery for their routine tests. On the issue of elective inductions and c/s - I agree with the previous post that said that if you can pay out of pocket for them then I guess it is every persons choice. I think they are wrong and would never elect to have my baby before he/she was ready unless there was a serious medical issue making it safer to deliver than to allow the pregnancy to progress on its own."
Thanks ladies for all of your input! I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. Maybe we'll have some ladies comment on why they DO believe in convenience c-sections and inductions, and a nice discussion will ensue. Or a debate, whatever you want to call it. I've been pondering lately, trying to figure out why I've become so passionate about natural childbirth. I haven't come up with any good reasons. Maybe because women who want one are in the minority, and I feel, often mistreated. I have always been one to pull for the underdog, and maybe this is kinda an example of that. I did find it interesting that someone pointed out that these elective procedures may not irritate others, if they were paid for out of pocket. Well, why aren't they? I think that is a great question. Any other purely elective surgery wouldn't be covered, so why is an induction or cesearean? Obviously, I am talking about PURELY elective stuff here. It is yet another thing to drive up our cost of healthcare. I know one thing for sure-- the day MY tax money helps pay for this, I will go through the roof. I wonder if (or how much) the percentage of women choosing convenience sections and inductions would go down, if they had to fork over the thousands of dollars it cost. I'm sure we'll never know, because the percentage would go down, and hospitals would lose money. Okay, enough typing for now. My fingers hurt. Ouchie.
M.S. "My 1st 2 children were induced on my due date - no medical reason - and I didn't know any better. My 3rd child I my water started leaking and I went into labor on my own, on my due date. Even though I was contracting 1 min apart, I was in denial that I was in labor. Afterall, I had only ever experienced pitocin contrax. So I sat around home for hours before finally going to the hospital. When I arrived my contractions were almost back to back and I was 6 cm dilated. Sounds pretty far to me!! Well my OB told me he was going to start pit to "speed things up". I told him there was no way, I was progressing just fine on my own. (This was at 6pm). Then he kept urging me to get the epidural. He said "There is No way you can do this without it". I told him if I went through 2 pitocin deliveries, the first being 29 hours long, with NO epidural or pain meds, I could do it this time too. But he continued to tell me there was no way I could do it. 3 hours 7 minutes later my son was born with no pitocin and no epidural after stalling at 7cm for 2 hours due to him being posterior. I too am very against elective inductions/c-sections especially for reasons of 'convenience'. I've seen women choose to be induced at 37 weeks, or even earlier, just so certain family members could be there. Then came all the "why me's" when their little ones were in the NICU for days or even weeks. The only reason I find "legit" for a schedule c-sect before the due date is if it is dangerous for the mother - or baby - for that mother to go into labor. But inductions because a mom is just 'tired of being pg' or to be sure to get a certain Dr. or have certain family members there - I just find that wrong and dangerous. All 6 of my children were born at the hospital, first 3 by OB's, my last 3 (and this one will be) by a midwife. My last 3 were the best experiences I've ever had. No drug pushers, no being tied down by monitors, etc."
W. D. says, "I do not agree with elective cesareans. Even though I had one. Of course, it was a repeat, but I didn't know any better and I was scared into it. Like many others have pointed out, there are so many reasons why they are wrong. I don't think a woman should ever have an elective cesarean for a first birth, unless there is a medical reason...but then, that wouldn't be elective, would it? However, I feel it is up to a woman to decide what she wants. I also think, that if women were told the *true* risk factors of each birthing option...vaginal, C/S, ERCS, VBAC...and aren't being given scare tactics about any of the options, just the facts...then I'd feel better about the choice they make. I didn't really have to fight, per say, for anything in the hospital. I had to search really hard to find a hospital and OB that didn't have a ban on VBA2C's, though. I ended up having to drive over 2 hours. That was not fun when I went past my due date and had to get NST's 2 times a week! In the hospital I had to have a hep-lock and CFM. I didn't want those, but I was willing to compromise to be able to attempt my VBA2C. My midwife was truly a midwife. She came to the hospital and stayed until my baby was born. She was a great advocate for me. She is the one that told the nurses, "She is not in ANY pain, and she refuses to answer that question. Please don't ask it again."
A.P. just wanted to ditto how fabulous a birth center was! She had a great experience at one with her daughter.
L.L says, " Just a first timer so no first hand experience yet, but I am very passionate that Elective C/S and Inductions should NOT be allowed. Well, actually scratch that, they should be allowed if the mommy wants to pay for it out of pocket. They should NOT be covered by insurance. It's unnecessary intervention that is driving up our health care costs and it makes me sick to my stomach. Not to mention, the risks are NOT fully discussed with the mommies (and I mean long term fertility risks - not just scarring, etc) - Elective procedures should be treated as such and doctors should be paid incentives if they can keep their elective procedures to a minimum. No matter how you look at it, it is very risky in so many ways."
E.L. says, "For my last 2 births (at the same hospital) I was able to get them to allow me to vary from hospital policy without a fight on the following things: I wore my own clothes I had intermittent monitoring I had infrequent cervical exams (probably more due to water being broken than to my request) Here are the things I had to fight on and I was not successful in winning these battles (hence the part of the reason for the doula this time to help back us up): - Hep-lock - they always want to give this to me immediately even though they don't have any reason to give me meds. They want it there "just in case" - Rejection of medication for pain - I have not had a nurse that supported this at the hospital. They seem to think there is no point to skipping the epidural. - I can't refuse salve in baby's eye's or vitamin K shot due to my state's laws. - Our hospital gives mom 1 hour to bond with baby after birth and then insists on a stay in the nursery for a couple hours for bath and monitoring. I have never been successful in delaying or eliminating the bath or keeping baby for more than an hour before allowing him to go to the nursery for their routine tests. On the issue of elective inductions and c/s - I agree with the previous post that said that if you can pay out of pocket for them then I guess it is every persons choice. I think they are wrong and would never elect to have my baby before he/she was ready unless there was a serious medical issue making it safer to deliver than to allow the pregnancy to progress on its own."
Thanks ladies for all of your input! I appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions. Maybe we'll have some ladies comment on why they DO believe in convenience c-sections and inductions, and a nice discussion will ensue. Or a debate, whatever you want to call it. I've been pondering lately, trying to figure out why I've become so passionate about natural childbirth. I haven't come up with any good reasons. Maybe because women who want one are in the minority, and I feel, often mistreated. I have always been one to pull for the underdog, and maybe this is kinda an example of that. I did find it interesting that someone pointed out that these elective procedures may not irritate others, if they were paid for out of pocket. Well, why aren't they? I think that is a great question. Any other purely elective surgery wouldn't be covered, so why is an induction or cesearean? Obviously, I am talking about PURELY elective stuff here. It is yet another thing to drive up our cost of healthcare. I know one thing for sure-- the day MY tax money helps pay for this, I will go through the roof. I wonder if (or how much) the percentage of women choosing convenience sections and inductions would go down, if they had to fork over the thousands of dollars it cost. I'm sure we'll never know, because the percentage would go down, and hospitals would lose money. Okay, enough typing for now. My fingers hurt. Ouchie.
3 comments:
Hey girlie! I guess I'll be the odd man out here! :-) I don't want to start a debate. I just wanted to share my opinion since you were asking for them. I did choose to be induced with both of my children. I was overdue and had not dilated or effaced on my own. I had them both very quickly once I was induced. I also chose to have epidurals with both of them. The first child, my epidural did not work and I did have natural childbirth. I had an excellent doctor and nurses and wouldn't trade my birthing experiences for anything.
I guess to me, the important thing is that both of my girls were delivered safely and both were healthy.I love them just as much as anyone on here can love their children. I am a good mom and I don't judge my parenting based on what type of childbirth I had. I did what was right for me and if I decide to have another child, I will do it the same way.
I think it's great that everyone on here is so passionate about childbirth. It is an amazing experience!
-Tarah
I'm so glad you took time to respond! I, and I'd bet alot of these other women, don't consider an induction related to post dates, a "convenience" induction. There is a medical need there, especially at 41 weeks. I just wish OBs would spend a little more time educating their patients. So many women believe that 40 weeks is an automatic timer. When in reality, the average length of a first time gestation (when left alone by the medical community), is approximately 41 weeks and 3 days. The risk to the baby doesn't go up until 41 weeks, so I just wish the OB's would relay that. However, it's more convenient for them to NOT say that, because they are more likely to get a daytime delivery with an induction. On top of the hospital making more money. I'm so glad you had such great experiences, and I hope I do too with our next one(s). You are right that the most important thing is a healthy momma and healthy baby at the end! It is remarkable just how passionate so many people are about childbirth. When this phase of my life is over, I wonder what I'll be so passionate about next?
After working as an L&D nurse and a Doula I realized how much you have to fight to get the "safest" care (low risk pregnancies of course!). The hospitals treat everyone as if they are high risk, and as much as I would love to blame THEM, I actually blame women and legal system. I truly believe these doctors/hospitals would use EVIDENCE based care instead of INSURANCE based care if women didn't sue sue sue sue. YES there are the occasional occasion that its appropriate---but more times then not it isn't (IMO). I know many doctors who say its best to just section a woman because then they can't ever be sued about not doing enough...to the legal system "doing everything possible" = c/s.
I also blame Universities---even as a nurse we just aren't TRAINED to deal with natural L&D...my school barely touched on Lamaze let alone the other options. I bet most if not ALL med students don't even SEE a natural birth...so OF COURSE they don't know how to deal with it. And finally....WHY are we picking OBGYN for low-risk pregnancies? They are SURGEONS. Family practioners SHOULD be doing all the low-risk pregnancies....but many, again, have been sued so much they send their pregnant patients to OBGYNs. There is just SO MUCH thats wrong with maternity care in the USA...its no wonder we have the highest death rate for mom and babies in ALL THE INDUSTRIALIZED countries in the world (Hell we are lower than some third world countries---its embarrassing!)
I know all the things that can happen in labor...I have helped deliver dead babies even. I still had a home birth with a CNM because I believe that sick people belong in a hospital...not healthy people who just happen to be with child. :) I didn't have a home birth so I could have a nice birth experience (that was just a perk!), I did it because I know it was the safest thing for me and my baby to NOT be in the hospital (I was low risk and TONS of research can back me up this is true).
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